ArtMeant* Project

We talked with museologists Emel Gülşah Akın and Ayça Bayrak, who conduct meticulous and significant research on the contemporary forms of the museum as an institution and an idea, about their podcast Merak Kabineleri. Enjoy the read!

Interview by Emre Akaltın

Can you tell us a little about yourself and your podcast Merak Kabineleri? How did this project come about?

Emel Gülşah Akın: I’m Emel Gülşah Akın. I’m pursuing a PhD in museology, and I actually met Ayça during this process. After completing my master’s in ancient history, I became interested in museums while working with a friend on a website called muzeler.org while planning my PhD abroad. That’s how my museum journey began.

After Ayça and I wrapped up our radio show Müzelik Sohbetler on Açık Radyo, we still wanted to keep producing content and discussing the field. We considered starting a newsletter or a podcast when we came across NewsLab Turkey’s incubator program. The micro-grant and training we received from NewsLab helped launch Merak Kabineleri.

Ayça Bayrak: I’m Ayça. This might sound cliché, but I’ve found researching and sharing my findings incredibly fulfilling since childhood. In middle school, I worked on a magazine called Bilgi Çağı with my classmates. By high school, I was actively involved in Çığlık, the publication of Istanbul Erkek Lisesi.

This continued into university and my professional life I wrote columns, prepared feature articles, and created travel guides for various magazines. I’ve always engaged with texts and visuals, and over time, this interaction crystallized into museology. Eventually, Gülşah and I brought Merak Kabineleri to life. Gülşah already explained how it started, so I just want to send a shout-out to the NewsLab team we’re really grateful to them for giving this project a lifeline!

What makes objects significant? You frequently discuss the trend of opening museums for seemingly unrelated things. What are your thoughts on this?

E.G.A.: Objects carry memories within them. They embody humanity’s creations, experiences, narratives, and the meanings we assign to them. I think we use objects to immortalize our existence and avoid being forgotten.

I’m not sure if it’s entirely accurate to call it a “museum boom” perhaps it’s more of an idea boom. Ayça and I often discuss museumania, which is my dissertation topic, and we even dedicated an episode of Merak Kabineleri to it. It’s a multi-layered and complex issue.

A.B.:As Gülşah said, this “museum boom” is something we frequently reflect on at Merak Kabineleri. The significance of objects isn’t just about their physical existence. From a museological perspective, incorporating an object into a collection or exhibition elevates it beyond its everyday use, placing it within a system of values.

However, this value isn’t just historical, cultural, or artistic it also carries ideological and economic dimensions. The meaning we assign to objects and how we position them within their stories, relationships, and contexts determine their importance.

Regarding the growing trend of opening museums for everything, if an object or topic is exhibited just for the sake of being displayed without considering its context it can weaken the critical and intellectual dimensions of museology.

What do institutions and major capital owners understand about museums? What should those with the power to establish museums consider before undertaking such an endeavor?

E.G.A.: For wealthy individuals, a museum often serves as a status symbol a demonstration of power, wealth, or even public goodwill. There are also tax benefits and aspects related to public interest. So, I have mixed opinions on what they truly understand about museums.

When considering what they should take into account, I think having a clear purpose is crucial. Establishing a museum isn’t the only way to share a collection. As museologists, we emphasize that museums should be public spaces that prioritize public benefit.

Privately owned museums those established by capital owners can sometimes adopt an overly top-down approach. From entrance fees to public programs, there are aspects where they struggle to engage with the society they’re meant to serve. That’s why defining a clear purpose is essential.

A.B.: Perhaps the more important question isn’t what capital owners understand about museums, but what we, as the public, understand and expect from them. After all, museums benefit from various incentives funded by our taxes.

Before establishing a museum for prestige, those with the means should consider economic and social sustainability. It’s not just about constructing a building or displaying a collection it’s about how the museum will function and whom it will connect with.

Museums aren’t limited to physical spaces; the key issue is how collections reach and engage with society. Plus, opening a museum isn’t the only way to share a collection. Alternative models like traveling exhibitions, digital archives, public space projects, and shared spaces exist. Fortunately, we’re starting to see more examples of these approaches.

What is the purpose of museums today?

E.G.A.: Today, museums provide spaces for both visitors and artists. They’ve become venues for seminars, performances, workshops, exhibitions essentially, anything you can think of.

For Turkey’s museums, this is still a subject for debate, but on a global scale, they function more like institutions. These roles complement their primary functions: preservation, exhibition, and education. However, museums also serve less positive roles, such as facilitating political narratives, being used as soft power tools, or acting as tax havens for wealthy collectors.

A.B.: The answer depends on our perspective. Museums function as spaces for knowledge production, preservation, exhibition, and education. They also serve as places of interaction for artists, researchers, and visitors.

Yet, museums are also embedded in power structures and ideological narratives. That’s why answering What is the purpose of museums? requires us to examine how they are used and for whom they create space. Do museums genuinely foster inclusivity, or do they merely reinforce existing viewpoints? This is the real question.

What criteria must a space meet to be considered a museum? Is having a permanent collection enough?

E.G.A.: I recently read an article titled What If Anything is a Museum?, which examined the distinctions between museums, exhibition spaces, and galleries, ultimately concluding that exhibitions define museums.

Considering both the ICOM (International Council of Museums) definition and museum history, my criteria are quite traditional: preservation, storage, and education. A permanent collection or ongoing exhibition alone isn’t sufficient. The space must interact with and contribute to society.

A.B.:The definition depends on our understanding of museums. Exhibition is only one aspect of museology; evaluating museums solely based on exhibitions is a narrow approach.

I believe research is crucial for museums. A museum isn’t just a place that displays objects it should also generate knowledge, deepen understanding, and offer new perspectives. Museums should critically assess their own methodologies and practices, questioning what it means to be a museum.

What is the relationship between museum access and cultural rights?

E.G.A.: Historically, this has been a topic of significant debate and struggle. There have been protests and coalitions advocating for free museum access.

For example, in England, Sir John Soane, who laid the foundations of the British Museum, adjusted museum hours so that workers could visit after their shifts, enabling their “cultural education.” However, museums also imposed conditions, such as requiring visitors to dress neatly and wear clean shoes granting cultural access while simultaneously disciplining the target audience.

In Turkey, cultural rights are constitutionally recognized, yet state museums charge entry fees. This raises questions about the extent to which a social state ensures public access to cultural rights. So, while there is a connection between museum access and cultural rights, it remains incomplete and insufficient.

A.B.: Museum access is part of cultural rights, but it isn’t always granted equally. Even if a museum is free, true accessibility and inclusivity remain the key issues. Cultural rights shouldn’t just exist in theory they must be actively implemented.

You also touch upon the political nature of museums. What would you like to say about this topic?

A.B.: Museums have always been political and will continue to be so. Because when a museum decides which objects to display, which stories to tell, and how to address its audience, it is essentially shaping a perspective. Museums are not just neutral spaces preserving the past; on the contrary, they determine how memory is recalled, which narratives take precedence, and are therefore deeply intertwined with power dynamics. That’s why discussing the political dimension of museums is crucial. Evaluating museums with a critical eye, questioning the narratives they present and their authority, and ensuring they become more inclusive are all important issues.

E.G.A.: Lately, I have been deeply engaged with this topic. It’s fresh in my mind because I’ve studied it extensively both as part of a subheading in my thesis and for an article I published last year. If we go back to the very beginning, culture itself is already a political issue. As places that showcase cultural symbols or reflections, museums inevitably become biased and serve as instruments of propaganda for those in power or the dominant perspectives of the era. I don’t think there’s a way to detach from this or to turn museums into neutral spaces. It may sound cliché, but in a time when everything personal is considered political, expecting museums to be free from politics or propaganda is simply unrealistic.

One of the first questions that came to my mind when I learned about your podcast and newsletter was how long you could sustain these discussions. Maybe I thought this way because I’m not very familiar with museum-related literature, but how much content can you really produce about museums in Turkey?

A.B.: What intrigues me most about museums is their ability to adapt to the spirit of the times. When I consider this agility alongside their role as public spaces and, consequently, political institutions, I believe the real question is not about the sustainability of content. Instead, it’s about how content can be diversified through contributions from experts across different disciplines, in line with the interdisciplinary nature of museology. Because I genuinely care about this topic and enjoy thinking about it, I suggested including a section called Perspektif in our newsletter. Gülşah was also open to the idea, and this allowed us to create a platform for guest writers who focus on museums.

E.G.A.: I completely agree with Ayça on the museums’ ability to adapt to the times. For example, there’s something called Rapid Response Collecting, a method that involves incorporating objects and themes that define a particular period (such as the past year or last five years) into collections. This helps prevent topics from running out. Also, the fact that museums draw from human experiences makes them a sustainable topic. There are museums dedicated to separation, war, even hair essentially, anything produced by or related to people has a museum, not to mention natural history museums. So, there’s always something to talk about 🙂

I know this might sound ambitious I’m not even sure how much we can achieve but can we break the outdated perception of museology that comes to mind when we talk about museums in Turkey? Is it possible to free museology, at least to some extent, from its rigid and overly specialized confines?

In short, how much content can be generated about museums in this country?

A.B.: I know this might sound ambitious I’m not even sure how much we can achieve but can we break the outdated perception of museology that comes to mind when we talk about museums in Turkey? Is it possible to free museology, at least to some extent, from its rigid and overly specialized confines? These critical questions never get old for us; they are evergreen topics. As long as we can secure resources, we will continue producing content. Museology, where criticism culture is still underdeveloped, is actually an incredibly rich field for thinking and working. That’s why, as long as our motivation endures, I don’t think we’ll face a shortage of content.

E.G.A.: I completely agree with Ayça. Challenging the perception of what a museum is this is something we focus on a lot, and we address it in different ways in our episodes and newsletters. People in Turkey are not indifferent to museums, but because of the traditional museum concept, they see them as intimidating or overly formal spaces. Plus, the art world is evolving rapidly new museums, creative spaces, and galleries are emerging at an incredible pace. As long as new things are being created, there will always be a need to discuss them. So I can say that we have motivation, a long road ahead, excitement, and youth on our side.

Can you share anything about the topics you’ll be covering in the coming weeks?

A.B.: There are two things I’m sure of: Gülşah and I will be progressing with our doctoral research and sharing our theses. Beyond that, many topics are on my mind. The first ones that come to mind are meta-museology, exhibiting everyday life, municipal museums and city museums, museology education and profession, participatory exhibition practices, gender representation in museums, and transparency in museum management. I’m sure Gülşah also has topics she’d like to add.

E.G.A.: Yes, our doctoral studies are like growing babies right now  we will definitely share them. And I’m especially excited about Ayça’s topic. We also have many ideas on how to approach museology, current events, and museum-labor relations. So, stay tuned ❤